The Live Lightly Podcast

Jessica (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Live Lightly podcast where we explore the beautiful interconnectivity of sustainability and human health. whether you're a long time listener or you're just joining our community, I really want to take time to show my appreciation and thank you for showing up, for caring and being a part of this journey towards a lighter, healthier way of living.

because I know that together we will find the power of living in harmony with Mother Nature And today I'm so excited to welcome Emma Denler, the face behind the simple environmentalist channels on Instagram and YouTube. From her time in the US Air Force to discovering the real impact of waste and plastic pollution, Emma has made it her mission to make zero waste living, free, easy, fun, accessible, and real for everyday people.

She's here with me today to share her unique journey and we're going to be diving into some of the biggest challenges in reducing household waste, how to recycle properly, and what it truly means to live a zero waste lifestyle. And we'll also break down how to spot and avoid greenwashing so you can make genuinely sustainable choices. This is one of my biggest, I think, pain points is...

greenwashing and so we're really gonna go deep into that because I absolutely love talking about it and I know we probably both have a lot to share. So welcome Emma, thank you so much for joining me and I am just, I have to tell you I'm so excited to geek out with you about breaking the code to reducing household waste. This is something that I have been doing for about eight years and I know you've been doing it for a little while too so it's gonna be fun.

Emma (01:26)
Yeah

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to get chatting.

Jessica (01:38)
Of course, And so I found you initially, in the Instagram feed, because I obviously am also into a lot of the same things, or very like-minded. And immediately I was drawn to your feed because you're doing something similar to me, but.

I feel like it's in a slightly different way. And I just would love, I just love your perspective and how it all began for you. so can you share your journey to sustainable living? I know that it has taken you from a small town in Ohio to the US Air Force and even across the world into Japan, well, to Japan. Please share a little bit about your background and what first inspired you to start reducing your own household waste.

Emma (02:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

sure. So yeah, I grew up in a really, really small town in Ohio, 2000 people like farm country. And we didn't even have curbside recycling. Like we there was no form of eco living where I grew up, other than like maybe shopping secondhand. So it wasn't until I joined the Air Force and I moved to West Texas that I finally started to see the impact that humans had on the planet. There was a lot of litter there, but particularly in Texas.

I was very interested in recycling because it's a non-incentive state, meaning that there's no incentive to recycle. So almost nobody does, especially in like these smaller West Texas towns. It might be more popular in the bigger cities. But so I took it upon myself. I created a recycling program for my training unit. And that was how I spent my weekends as a 19 year old. Very fun, very riveting. But I learned a lot about recycling. And I did end up diverting a lot of waste from the landfill.

But the Air Force then took me to Japan where I quickly learned that recycling is not the answer. And that was because I was on a little island called Okinawa. It's kind of like the Hawaii of Japan. It's a small subtropical island way off the coast of the mainland in the middle of Pacific Ocean. So a lot of waste washed up on the beaches. And that was kind of a light bulb went off for me that, recycling is actually not the solution. It's still a great thing to do, but plenty of this stuff might have been in a recycling truck at one point.

and now it's on our beach. So from there, I really started to focus on reduction of plastic and reduction of single use products in general.

Jessica (03:59)
That's exactly a different way that I found it, but that's exactly my motivation behind when I really started to think about my waste. I always recycled and had it available to me and did the best I could, but I thought everything was just being turned into another plastic yogurt tub efficiently. And to have learned about the Pacific garbage patch and the five guyers, I was just devastated and that's...

Emma (04:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (04:27)
what motivated me to start reducing what I bring in and what I put out as waste. so we just start talking a little bit about recycling because it is so confusing, especially with so much misinformation about it out there. And I kind of feel like recycling is even greenwashed, right? Because a lot of labels on things,

Emma (04:40)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it is.

Jessica (04:53)
are just, it's like this label, but is it actually being recycled or able to be recycled even? And here we are thinking it is. So what are some of the biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to properly recycling? And also what is some of the misinformation out there from your perspective? Yeah.

Emma (04:59)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so I guess

twofold and you kind of already hinted at it and that is plenty of us think that everything is recyclable. And in theory, yeah, everything does have the potential to be recycled, but will it actually be recycled? And something that I think maybe not a lot of people realize is that recycling is a business. And if it's too expensive for a company to recycle a certain product, they're not going to because it's cheaper to make it from new, which is a big reason in particular why plastic recycling is so low because it's so expensive to recycle plastic, especially

Jessica (05:20)
I'm sorry.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Emma (05:43)
thin plastics and styrofoam. So I think that's the biggest mistake that people can make is just putting everything into their recycling bin because they think it's recyclable and it also feels better than putting it in the landfill.

Jessica (05:56)
Totally. Yeah, it feels much better just to put it in But it used to be a confidence in it, you know, but now once you hear about

Emma (05:57)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jessica (06:04)
only 9 % is actually being recycled and turned into something else. It's really now, it's like, here's hoping. And so many people think that as long as something has the symbol on it, can you talk a little bit more about what isn't maybe recyclable? Yeah.

Emma (06:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so just a blanket statement. Everywhere is going to have different rules. So check your local rules before putting something in your bin. But I will still keep it generic for most of the US and sometimes even most of the entire globe. So at least in the US, when you see a recycling symbol on something, it's not always a recycling symbol. Rather, it's a resin identification code or an RIC. And that's how recyclers identify what can be recycled together. So if you look at a plastic

recycling symbol, it's probably going to have a number in there, one through seven. And that means that plastics number one can only be recycled with plastics number one, twos with twos and so forth. So it's more for the recycler information and not so much for your information. But it does come in handy because plenty of regions will have recycling rules for plastic that they only take certain numbers. So it can still help you as a consumer.

Most regions will only accept plastics number one and two, which are the rigid plastics, sometimes plastic five, but very rarely the other types. Those you kind of have to seek out special programs for. Other very commonly recycled items are paper, cardboard, metal, and glass. But again, please check before you put something in your recycling bin. I've lived in places where they didn't accept glass and I would have been recycling wrong if I put it in there. I think I answered all of them. Was there more to that question?

Jessica (07:37)
Right.

Yeah, no, I think that that's good to give that overall view because I think that all those numbers can be very confusing and my own bin says that one through seven is accepted. So I put it all in and I'm like, I don't know, but I'm gonna put it in so that maybe, right? And so,

Emma (07:48)
you

to me.

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (08:06)
Tell us a little bit more. You started a recycling program in your dorms while in Texas. So if you could go a little bit more about what that experience taught you about the challenges of recycling and how we can improve it

Emma (08:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

for sure, I think the biggest thing it taught me was how much of a lack there is of recycling education in the United States. And like, even when rules are posted, that doesn't mean somebody is going to read them. And I had to do a lot of sorting myself because when I took it to the recycling plant, it had to be very specific plastics, one plastics, two metal glass and paper. So I did all the sorting by hand myself.

And that really, really made me have such an appreciation for people who are paid to do that and people who are paid to program machines to do that, because it is a lot of work. And I was doing it for like a hundred people. I cannot imagine doing it for a city of hundreds of thousands of people. so truly, if you care about recycling, recycle correctly so that you can kind of take that burden off of people who do have to sort the recycling. Cause it's not always done by machine. is sometimes done by actual humans with their hands sorting through.

Jessica (08:53)
Mm-hmm.

Emma (09:14)
recycling and sometimes garbage because garbage ends up in the bin too. So that was kind of my biggest eye opener.

Jessica (09:18)
Mm-hmm.

when you say that garbage ends up in the bins, I think that that's an important thing to just touch on a little bit so that we can be a little bit more mindful before I put it in, I make sure most of the food debris is off, and I just replace the lid back onto it if it's also plastic.

Emma (09:27)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (09:40)
And so I feel like that's helpful probably for the sorting process. Would you agree that that's something that can help a little bit?

Emma (09:43)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. It's generally implied that recycling needs to be clean and dry. Yeah, some areas might not specify that, but generally it is very, very helpful for them as a whole process. Even if it's just out of the kindness of your heart that you don't want somebody to touch your dirty yogurt container or whatever it is, just to be kind, even if it's not necessarily required. But even if it's not required to, it does help expedite the process, which might even

Jessica (09:58)
Huh.

Mm-hmm.

Emma (10:18)
improve the overall recycling system as a whole. If recycling is more efficient, it might be more beneficial down the line, might be more profitable, and companies might be more willing to recycle even more.

Jessica (10:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm. Yeah, I really like those points. And I also have to take that to the public trash and recycling bins that are in public. if something has food in it or on it, like just put it in the trash, because it's probably better to keep that out of the mainstream of recycling. They're probably just looking mostly for an empty plastic beverage bottles.

Emma (10:34)
Hey.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (10:53)
in those situations and maybe not even like the plastic cup you had your latte your iced latte in from Starbucks like that kind of thing I would say unfortunately just probably throw it into the bin what what do you think?

Emma (10:55)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

I would agree, especially with plastic, the recycling rate is already so low. So even if you put something clean in your recycling bin, the likelihood of that getting recycled is still only 9%, let alone if you put something dirty in there. Plus, if you put something dirty in your recycling bin, it can contaminate other items, especially more valuable items like metal and glass. And then it's your whole bin, your whole bag might end up in a landfill anyway. So I still think it's better to put one thing in the landfill versus your entire bin in a landfill.

Jessica (11:11)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly. that's you just said bag and I glad that you said that because that's one little reminder that I would love to give to everybody is that no matter where you live, if you have a recycling bin at the curb, please don't put it in a plastic garbage bag into your bin. I know that like zero percent of that gets opened and recycled and it can actually slow up the process. It can damage the machines and

Emma (11:51)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (12:04)
cause a lot of backup and slowdown. So just put it into your bin loose. that, yeah. Yeah, I feel like that's a good across the board. Anybody can follow that tip. And I guess with all of that being said, this is a really good segue to say because recycling is so inefficient right now, it's just better to reduce our own waste in general.

Emma (12:10)
Yep. Yeah, that's generally accepted.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (12:33)
And so when people hear like the term zero waste, because it's been out there for a little while and that's what was really kind of the term when I started this almost eight years ago. And I did get very, very close to zero waste. It sounds intimidating, it is intimidating. It's like hard, it's overwhelming. It shouldn't be that way.

Emma (12:52)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (12:54)
But how would you define like modern day today, 2025, zero waste living and what does it realistically look like in your daily life?

Emma (13:04)
Yeah, my personal definition is probably going to be different from everybody else's. But for me, zero waste is just kind of like my outward expression of living an eco life of being an environmentalist. So like an environmentalist simply just means that you care about the planet. And for me, zero waste are the actions I take to show that I care about the planet. And so the technical definition, like for companies even, because this zero waste term can be applied to companies and corporations too.

Only states 90 % of your waste needs to be diverted from landfill. So even in the most strict sense of the definition, you do not have to divert 100 % of your waste from the landfill. If you can, good for you. But if that's totally unachievable, don't sweat it. If you can only get to that 90%, great. If you could only get to 70%, that's also great. For me, I think any effort that we take to reduce what we send to the landfill is so important, even if it's just 1%. When we all do it together, that's when it really starts to add up.

Jessica (13:57)
Mm-hmm.

Emma (14:01)
So for me, I use zero waste, low waste, eco-living all interchangeably, and it just simply means reducing as much as I can from the land.

Jessica (14:10)
Yeah, I agree. not so rigid and not so strict. It's a little bit more of a goal. Is that what you would like to maybe clear up about the zero waste living misconception that people might have?

Emma (14:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, as a goal and I think also a lifestyle, if you want to put it in that way, and that you absolutely do not need to strive for that perfection. And I think taking that burden off, especially for someone who's new to wanting to be zero waste, can really help your whole journey go a little bit smoother instead of being so stressed about perfection. I know many of us, especially, yeah, like eight to 10 years ago, it was so, I felt heavily emphasized that you had to be perfect and do the trash jar and, you know, do all of this. And it was really stressful.

Jessica (14:31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. and you you actually emphasize Having it be affordable and fun and accessible for everybody. So can you Clear up some of the misconceptions about how going zero waste can be expensive how can someone who's just starting reduce their waste without spending a whole lot of money

Emma (14:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

So I'm not the owner of this statement, but I've heard it on the internet plenty before, and I'm not sure who the original quote person is. But the most sustainable thing is a thing that you already own. And I think very early on, we see, take a look in our bathroom, for example, and we see our plastic shampoo, our plastic conditioner, our plastic toothpaste. And we think, I have to throw that out immediately and buy all these eco swabs.

Jessica (15:24)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Emma (15:35)
That's going to cost you a lot of money, which is why it seems so expensive. And two, you're wasting product. It does feel unsustainable because it's in plastic, but the product in there, it's going to end up in the landfill if you don't use it. So you might as well use it. So even if it feels wasteful, use it once you run out, then buy the new product. And I think that can help it feel less expensive as well when you're only buying one product at a time. When you run out of your toilet paper, opt for an eco-friendly one. When you run out of toothpaste,

Jessica (15:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Emma (16:03)
up for an eco-friendly one. And then maybe it's only one swap a week or even a month, depending on how quickly you use up your stuff. And that can really take the financial burden off of the movement, I think.

Jessica (16:09)
Mm-hmm.

I agree. I think a little bit of the financial burden can also be reduced by not only swapping out one thing at a time, but also when you do swap it out, make sure that you're doing it with something that is all the things that are sustainable, like the ingredients are sustainable, the packaging, the materials it's made of so that you don't spend a lot of money trying to get

Emma (16:29)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica (16:36)
there, right? Like, so, you know, you have a lot of resources that are really helpful for making those swaps. I have a resource. So those things, take a lot of the burden off of consumers who don't have that time or interest. what were some of the biggest challenges that you faced when you're transitioning to a lower waste lifestyle? And how did you overcome that?

Emma (16:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (16:56)
because everything is plastic and everything is disposable. So I just want to hear from someone else who did it, some tips about how to overcome that overwhelm and the challenges.

Emma (16:57)
Yeah. Right.

Yeah. And this is extra interesting because I was living in Japan when I first started living zero waste, making the swaps. I started kind of like the foundational building blocks when I was in Texas, but it wasn't until I moved to Japan that I started the swaps. for you and people who listening, if you don't know, Japan is really plastic obsessed. And I think it's because of hygiene. They're very hygienic culture. I saw individual bananas wrapped in plastic, crazy amounts of plastic up there. So it made it feel impossible.

Jessica (17:14)
Mm-hmm.

Emma (17:39)
as well as I didn't have access to a bulk store. I was in an apartment, so I couldn't renovate my house to be more eco-friendly. So it really felt like, I didn't belong in this movement. There's plenty of plastic in my grocery cart. I can't shop zero waste. How can I do that? And so I did start with the stuff that I could control, like my toothpaste, my shampoo, my conditioner. I recycled properly for the plastic that I simply could not avoid. And I tried my absolute best to avoid the plastic that I could.

Jessica (17:39)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Emma (18:03)
I tried to seek out farmers markets. I stuck to things in the grocery store that came packaged in paper and came packaged in metal and came package free if possible. know, like just oranges loose instead of oranges in a bag. So even if you are in a situation like that, like you don't have a bulk store, you can't, you know, find stuff plastic free. There are still small ways that you can make an impact. I did a lot of homemade stuff.

Back in those days, I would make my own bread, make my own plant milk, make my own kombucha and hummus and so much stuff like that in order to do some of the plastic waste that I couldn't avoid necessarily when it came to produce.

Jessica (18:39)
it's getting that way in some places here and it's scary and sad and so I would say if you have grocery stores are putting more and more things into plastic packaging that don't need them and that weren't in plastic packaging before maybe just write a note as a concerned citizen to your grocer and give them some

Emma (18:41)
Hey.

Jessica (19:00)
some information about plastic pollution because we can make the changes if we take time and energy to write those letters. And sometimes that's an intimidating thing to do, but I think that it does actually make a difference. I wrote to restaurants during COVID that were still putting utensils into the bags

Emma (19:24)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (19:24)
And it eventually, caught on to where couple of the restaurants, when you go online to order, you have to choose, say that you want to have utensils. And so it's, something that they're asking up front. And then also a couple of the places started training their employees to ask when you come to pick up your bag, do you need anything? So, you know, it's...

Emma (19:38)
That's nice.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jessica (19:47)
Little things like that can definitely have an impact if you're able and willing to go the extra mile if it's really concerning you and you see that locally in your own grocery stores. Because I just feel like that is, it's going backwards. We're moving in the wrong direction when I see that kind of thing. And so I just wanted to put that out there. And so what are some of your favorite zero waste or low waste household products that

Emma (20:02)
Yeah.

Jessica (20:14)
you find it made like the biggest impact on your own waste reduction.

Emma (20:19)
Yeah, right off the top of my head is reusable period products. That's something that produces a lot of waste for people who have periods and also gets really expensive. And I didn't realize that either until I quit buying them. So that's made a huge impact in my life, especially when you use something like a menstrual cup or a menstrual disc, you only have to buy one of them. Period underwear definitely do get expensive, but they're so comfortable. I love them.

Jessica (20:23)
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Emma (20:44)
Let's see what else. mean, without a doubt, a reusable water bottle. It's a classic zero waste swap. I mean, otherwise I would be drinking maybe four plastic water bottles a day. It really adds up. And I'm just one person over the course of a year. Multiply that by everybody who drinks out of plastic water bottles. It's a really, really simple swap that can reduce so much waste and once again, save a lot of money. I guess bringing it back to the money is

Jessica (20:54)
Mm-hmm.

Emma (21:09)
These zero waste swaps can be expensive upfront, over the course of many, years that they last, they can save you plenty of money as well.

Jessica (21:16)
I agree. They can save you a lot of money. Even the period underwear that you talked about, it is a little bit of an upfront because you need to swap them out. like can't wear them 24 hours. So you need to have two pair for the day, right? One for day, one for night. And so, upfront you might buy like four to six of them, depending on how often you're committed to doing your laundry. so that can feel like a lot, if you

Emma (21:20)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Jessica (21:41)
Think about it. It's gonna, they're gonna last you for two or three years, maybe more, probably more. You only have your period for like, you know, few days, right? And so if you think about things long term, you know, and like do a little math and then you see it and you go, oh my God, I'm actually gonna be saving so much money. And in addition to that, I have to add to the period products, cause I love that one is that

Emma (21:46)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jessica (22:08)
all of the period products that most people are accustomed to using because this is what we were taught when we were growing up, are also full of toxic chemicals. And that area of our body is highly absorbable. So anything you're putting on or in that area is absorbing all those chemicals and can cause some endocrine disruption and maybe

Emma (22:17)
Mm-hmm.

So bad.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (22:36)
fertility issues for younger women. So I'll just put that out there that that's a second benefit, the health benefit of making that swap. And there's always a health benefit to every time that we're reducing waste and switching to sustainably made product because they're free of chemicals, but not always. The claims are not always what they seem to be. Like ideally,

Emma (22:42)
Indeed.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (23:02)
they are going to be free of the chemicals, right? So even with period underwear, have to say that I probably went through like 10 companies before I found one that was like as close as I could find. They're like basically 90 in the mid 90, like maybe 5 % like organic cotton and or bamboo material.

Emma (23:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Jessica (23:26)
like it's either viscose or lycosel but the sustainable type of bamboo because there's two types unsustainable and sustainable and I can't ever get them straight but this is the sustainable one and organic cotton which is much more sustainable than non-organic cotton and so otherwise they are being made of a lot of like polyester material

Emma (23:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Jessica (23:51)
which is still just plastic and filled with chemicals. And yes, it's great that it's like not going to send a lot of products into the landfill. However, you're still getting that chemical right there next to your body and you're still absorbing all those plastic chemicals. So this brings us to greenwashing, right? One of my favorite topics. It's everywhere and...

Emma (24:07)
Right.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jessica (24:21)
How would you define it? And why do you think it is such a big problem?

Emma (24:26)
Yeah, so greenwashing is essentially a brand or a company or even a product portraying itself in a way that's more eco than it actually is. And it's a problem because I think societally we want to become more eco-friendly. So it's becoming more popular to buy eco products, but companies don't necessarily actually care about the planet. They care about what's trendy. And if eco is trendy, they know that's how they're going to make money. So that's why greenwashing is kind of on the up and up.

and it's really easy to fall for.

Jessica (24:59)
Yeah, I feel as though the big corporations are doing their best to cash in on people's good hearts. Yeah, their intention to want better for the planet and for themselves. And it's really sad. So.

Emma (25:08)
Yep. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (25:15)
let's talk about some of the vague terms like eco-friendly or natural and what should consumers look for instead to verify that a product is like what I call truly sustainable.

Emma (25:18)
Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so there are a lot of terms out there that you'll see on products that are not certified by any organization, the USDA, any of that. Green, eco, sustainable, zero waste. I think organic might be certified. Okay, certified organic, right. But if they just use the word organic with no certification, that's something to maybe raise a red flag at.

Jessica (25:46)
Yes, if it's the certified organic green and white label. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Emma (25:58)
which brings us to a great way to spot greenwashing is the certification or not. And make sure it's a third party certification because plenty of companies will also certify themselves, which may be true, but it also may not be. It's a little easier to hide behind a self-certification than a legitimate third party certification. And those are certified organic, B-corp, 1 % for the planet.

Jessica (26:09)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Emma (26:24)
E-Okotec certified organic cotton. There's so many certifications out there that are reputable and actually have some meaning behind them. I don't hold this standard to small businesses all the time because these certifications are very expensive to achieve and also take years. So if a business just got on the market and they're eco-friendly, they don't have a certification, doesn't necessarily mean that they're greenwashing. It could just mean that they're waiting in line to get certified.

Jessica (26:31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Emma (26:51)
So for me, think my biggest factor when it comes to spotting greenwashing is taking a look at the overall company. One example I saw this years ago and it really stuck in my brain was I was walking through the laundry detergent aisle of a regular supermarket and I saw a new line of Tide Eco-friendly laundry detergent. The bottle is clear, the formulation is clear, there's no added dyes, no added chemicals right next to their bright orange bottle full of their bright blue detergent. And I was like,

Jessica (27:13)
Mm-hmm.

Emma (27:18)
I don't think Tide actually cares about the planet or else they would make their entire line of laundry this eco-friendly formula. And so that's a really big indicator of greenwashing is does the whole company care about the planet or just this one product? Yeah.

Jessica (27:25)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm. I love that one. Mm-hmm.

Go ahead. I just wanted to interject that I love that. Yeah.

Emma (27:37)
Okay, yeah, just an example then of a company

that's totally eco-friendly. A really small business I love is Plain Products. They do refillable bathroom stuff. Every single one of their product has good ingredients, comes in an aluminum bottle that is fully recyclable or refillable through their program. They reuse their boxes in-house. So many different things that they do to be eco-friendly. And it's the whole company, not just one product.

Jessica (27:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, yes. I personally don't trust anything on the shelves at my grocery store. and even my health food stores and even in Whole Foods has just gotten worse.

They have gone backwards. Let's just say that in every way. I mean, they're still better, I will say, than the stuff that is absolutely not trying, right? But it's not what I think consumers are really looking for when they're making that effort today to swap out. I think that they're making the effort for the planet.

Emma (28:20)
Yeah.

BANG!

Jessica (28:43)
And generally, I think that they're also now becoming more more aware of the toxins that they're exposing themselves to with all these beauty products and healthcare products and cleaning products that they're bringing into their home. And so when they're looking for things on the shelves, they are looking for things that are going to be free from, right? And just because it's free from that one thing doesn't mean it's free from all the other stuff. You have to question like, well, gee,

Emma (28:43)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (29:12)
Why would, why did it have that thing in it in the first place, right? What else is in there? my whole motto is question everything. if you're gonna do the research yourself thoroughly look at the website. Like you said, really read the website. Do they have a report, an annual report that they are willing to share with their consumers?

Emma (29:15)
Great.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (29:33)
Even if they don't have those certifications yet in my guide I feel like most all of the businesses pretty much are smaller family-owned business that are doing this on a smaller scale and they're trying to grow but they're doing it right from the beginning and so and though you'll see it in their website you'll see it in their about page right like there's a lot I would say like have you seen the uptick of newer

Emma (29:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Jessica (30:00)
companies who are trying to put themselves forward as, know, here we are, we've got this zero waste container or something. And their ingredients are still, you know, they still have phthalates and parabens and all that. Have you seen the uptake in that? Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of have to be an investigator, put on your detective hat or

Emma (30:03)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (30:25)
If you're not into it, our guides are great resources as well.

I know I said a little bit of something about this when I was

laying out all the things that I look for, but can we talk about like lot of these companies that maybe have more sustainable or reusable packaging because people are looking for something that's not plastic, But the ingredients are not necessarily sustainable. what advice do you give consumers who are looking for the whole package?

Emma (30:54)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (30:55)
if they want to do some of this research on their own.

Emma (30:58)
Hmm. Yeah, that's a really good question. I would say start with what matters most to you. Is packaging most important to you? Is ingredients more important to you? And then find the product that meets that requirement and then further investigate. So say, you know, plastic is your number one priority and you find a lotion in a metal bottle. That's great. Step one achieved. Now take that company, look at their ingredients, look at their website, look for other signs of greenwashing from there and

Jessica (31:02)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Heh.

Emma (31:28)
It can be a lot of work, unfortunately, but I believe that there's going to be a brand out there that suits your needs. It can be very valuable skill and eventually you will get better at it.

Jessica (31:38)
I agree. It's definitely something that is a learned process. And for me, when I was first doing this, had previously been swapping out to all of the products that were non-toxic and less chemicals and come to find out, you know, like years later, a lot of those products are also not fully.

Emma (31:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (32:06)
as non-toxic as you would hope that they are. And that's why I say I don't shop off of the grocery store shelves, even at the health food store, because a lot of those products that tout themselves as non-toxic are like, we don't have this, that, and we use some aloe but there's still some questionable things that I don't want, like phthalates or parabens. And we could go.

Emma (32:07)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (32:29)
into all that, but I feel like this episode is not necessarily geared towards educating people about all of the chemicals and endocrine disruptors. I do have an episode where I thoroughly go over all of that with a hormone health coach so I will link to that episode in the show notes,

Emma (32:36)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (32:46)
I wish I would have had some of this back eight years ago when I started because I was looking at all the chemicals first.

Emma (32:49)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessica (32:53)
And then I became aware of plastic. So I was like, I've to get rid of the plastic packaging. And then I would realize, my god, but the ingredients. Or the ingredients are all good, no chemicals, but my gosh, they're not organic. And just this process of like,

Emma (32:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (33:14)
making mistakes and failing and spending all this time and energy and money and like kind of having to reinvent the wheel every time you realize, but that other thing that I would like to have, it doesn't have that. So I think that your resources are really great to help people move in that right direction. You actually have one of your resources is all about greenwashing and how to.

Emma (33:16)
Mm-hmm.

out.

Evening.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jessica (33:38)
decipher if people want to go down this route of finding their own products and not being greenwashed. So can you let us know what all of your resources are and how to find them?

Emma (33:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I have three free downloads. They are how to spot greenwashing all on your own, complete with a little quiz to test your knowledge, a zero waste guide to grocery shopping, especially if you don't have access to a refill store. And third and just launched was the guide to breaking up with consumerism. It's essentially being content with what you have, learning to reduce, learning to upcycle, and all about shopping small and thrifting. and where to find them.

Jessica (34:14)
Hmm. Where

to find them? I was going to say I didn't see that one and I'm going to get that one because I feel like that's my weak point is we, I definitely thrift store, but sometimes when I have something that I'm like, Oh, could I reuse this? Can I, you know, what can I do with this thing? Yeah. I feel a little stuck sometimes. I'm not super creative. So yeah.

Emma (34:16)
Sorry, the most important detail.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I also have a

whole upcycling playlist on YouTube, all of my random ways that I've upcycled stuff before. Maybe not necessarily tips, but you can just use my videos as inspiration.

Jessica (34:46)
Cool! I love that.

Cool, so where can we find you on YouTube, Instagram, and your website?

Emma (34:58)
Yeah. So my website is the simple environmentalist.com and my guides are under resources, free downloads. My YouTube channel is the simple environmentalist and Instagram is the simple environmentalist.

Jessica (35:09)
Yeah, and all those resources are wonderful. You've done a beautiful job putting everything together in a way that I feel like people can totally access and it can support them on their journey, whether they're starting from scratch and they're just now going, my gosh, I can do this. And they're inspired or they're kind of like, I've been trying and yeah, I have that bottle of Tide at home. It's still a big plastic bottle.

Emma (35:14)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jessica (35:36)
It's still got all the other chemicals in it. how do I do this? So it's really great for A to Z wherever you're at in that journey and I also have a guide to offer as well if You're listening and you haven't yet downloaded my guide. My guide is a little bit more of like if you're gonna replace something today in your household

Emma (35:40)
Mm-hmm.

For sure.

Jessica (35:57)
you can just go to that chapter and be like, okay, there's a few different options for toothpaste, and which option do I feel most comfortable with? You're gonna know that everything has been, I call it truly sustainable, so the companies are doing all the right things with ingredients that are sourced in the right way, and they're treating the people also with fair pay and fair working conditions.

and all the packaging is plastic free and so that's always a plus. That's a big one for me and also obviously no toxic nothing. So it's free of all this stuff and yeah wherever you're at in your journey these resources can totally help take out all the stress and the overwhelm and the frustration of

Emma (36:28)
She's in.

Mm-hmm.

Jessica (36:46)
Trying to do it all yourself, right? I mean some of it you might want to do yourself and just make it your own But some of it you might just be like, my gosh, I just want to know right now Yeah, so I think that's kind of where both of our guides can kind of help make a very cohesive platform for people to begin with

Emma (36:55)
For sure, for sure.

Jessica (37:04)
Thank you so much. I'm so glad that we were able to have this conversation and just shed some more light on sustainable living to make it less intimidating. I appreciate that you came here to share your story and all of the wisdom that you've picked up along the way.

Emma (37:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I really appreciate you having me on the podcast. This was a really fun conversation.