The Live Lightly Podcast

Jessica (00:00)
Hello and welcome back to the Live Lightly podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Franklin. And today I am so very honored to have our guest, Erin Easterly. She's an Ayurvedic practitioner for over 20 years who worked and studied under Deepak Chopra and spent over 10 years of her career.

working at the Chopra Center as an Ayurvedic practitioner. She's also a yoga instructor. Welcome, Erin.

Erin (00:28)
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Jessica (00:31)
Yes, of course. I'm so glad that our paths crossed. We were both in the same place in the same time. And the conversation that was around us just brought us together. I think the universe had a plan.

Erin (00:47)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Jessica (00:49)
And so when we were talking, when we first met and it came out that you have been an Ayurvedic practitioner for most of your career, if not all of it, I immediately, my ears perked up and tuned right in because we are definitely cut from the same fabric. it resonates so much with me being a yogi and a yoga teacher myself.

but I've never actually dove in very deeply to the studies of Ayurveda. So I would love to know a little bit about your path and what brought you to it 20 years ago, because that's about the same amount of time ago. I'm trying to do the math here that I ran, came across the yogic path. I think it was maybe 2002 that I entered that realm of stepping onto my mat for the first time and then...

Erin (01:30)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm, I did that too. I did.

Jessica (01:45)
And it was also very new to me, but yet familiar because movement was something that I was very interested in and into from a very young age, being an instructor of all the different fitness classes. did you really, my gosh, we definitely

have some of the very similar, paths have been almost parallel it sounds like, but you took it much deeper.

Erin (02:11)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (02:13)
and going into Ayurveda, could you tell us a little bit about what brought you there and your background?

Erin (02:20)
sure. Well, I came to the path rather circuitously because I wasn't into any of this at all. But I think it was probably the late 90s. I was having some thyroid issues. I had a hyperactive thyroid and being fully invested in the modern medical model, I didn't even question when they're like, okay, we're going to book you for a treatment next week.

It's radioactive iodine. You're gonna show up and you're gonna drink this. You're gonna need to be in a special suit and also stay away from people for three days. I was like, okay. Didn't even question it. just, I was so invested in it and I was like, they know what they're doing. But after that, even when things had settled and the thyroid was where it needed to be, I was exhausted.

I felt like I had cinder blocks attached to my arms and my legs. Eventually they said, well, this is chronic fatigue syndrome. I said, well, that's great. What can we do about it? And they said, well, there's nothing really you can do. You're going to just have to live with this. That wasn't an acceptable answer for me. So that began my path down the alternative route. So I began looking at different things. I started with an acupuncturist and I learned some things there.

I worked with a functional medicine doctor and I learned some things there. And eventually that path brought me to Ayurveda, where I just began studying it on my own. And it was different, but none of it defied logic. It all made sense to my rational mind. So whereas I wasn't ready fully to understand meridians and things that were part of Chinese medicine, Ayurveda was similar in that it was a very ancient system that had stood this test of time.

But the strategies to integrate, they made perfect sense to me. They were really easy to do. So I began to integrate those and I would make something part of my daily habit. And then I would add something else to that. And over time, I could just see this transformation happening within myself until finally, I'm like, I don't have chronic fatigue syndrome. This is gone. And so I realized that those practices over time just

completely eliminated this. Now, chronic fatigue is a funny thing because people think, well, you're just tired. Yeah, we're all tired. It's not something I can put into words for someone who hasn't described it, but I'll try. And it's like moving through sludge. So everything that you do feels like it takes the greatest effort, more energy and effort than you have to put into it. So the fact that I was able to move through that when there was no path forward,

in the allopathic system was huge. And so I studied that more, studied that more, and began to integrate those practices into what I was simply telling people. So at the time I was teaching yoga, I was a massage therapist, and I would just tell people, hey, you might try this. I tried this. It kind of worked for me. And the stories people would come back with were so amazing that then I really developed an interest and went full in, just dove into that.

became certified as an Ayurvedic practitioner, eventually moved to where I currently live, which is interesting. That's a whole side story. At the time, I did not even know that Deepak Chopra had a Chopra Center. When I moved to the house that I'm in now, which is about 15 minutes from what used to be the Chopra Center, I didn't even know it existed. And I eventually found out and I was like, my gosh, I need to work there.

So I applied and was hired and ended up wearing many, many hats while I was there. I worked as an Ayurvedic practitioner. I ended up doing a lot of the writing at the Chopra Center, teaching classes. And it was just my joy to see how the practice of Ayurveda was able to transform people's health, their wellbeing, their mental states into something where they could really optimize their health and wellbeing.

Jessica (06:32)
it sounds like this is something that you started on your own, digging into whatever resources and research that you had available to you then. And then you took it upon yourself to try things that you were reading about just in books or online at the time, or.

Erin (06:37)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

well, I think mostly it was in books back in the old days. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, now that I think about it. Yeah, now that I think about it, was longer than it was actually almost 30 years ago. I think time is just getting away from me. I mean, I since had five kids, I've got four grandkids, know, life is just flying by. But

Jessica (06:56)
Right, exactly, 20 years ago, not much online about it. So you just stumbled upon the books.

Yeah.

Erin (07:15)
Yeah, I know I said 20, but now that I'm thinking about the timeframe, like, no, this was back in 1996 when I first began investigating this. So it was a long time ago, back when we actually had paper books. So yes, I did read about all of this in books and Deepak Chopra was very instrumental in my formative knowledge. And then of course I branched out and started learning from practitioners who were in India. So it was just a beautiful journey of exploration.

Jessica (07:43)
So did you stumble upon it because you were teaching yoga and that was maybe part of your awareness or because I feel like Ayurveda only came on my radar when I took my second yoga teacher training course.

Erin (07:59)
interesting.

That's a good question. No, I don't think that I did stumble on it through yoga, although that is a pathway that many people use and they find Ayurveda through that path of yoga. But I was actually looking for different therapies that I could integrate into my life to just feel like I had the energy to move through life. And so, you know, I was I was actively

Jessica (08:09)
Mm-hmm.

Erin (08:24)
for something that might make a difference.

Jessica (08:26)
So I would love it if you could give us a little bit of a foundation of understanding through the lens of environmental wellbeing so that we can connect the dots between Ayurveda and how it's good for personal health, but also environmental wellbeing.

Erin (08:46)
Well, that's a pretty easy one because Ayurveda is fundamentally based on this concept of the five elements. So we look at nature and we see that we're not separate from nature. Nature is very much a part

of us. in fact, we couldn't have these physical bodies if it were not for all of the different elements in nature, coalescing to create the physical structures, the blood, like the organs, everything we've got going on within our physical body. It comes from nature. And so I know that can be a little confusing to people. So I think it's helpful to just contrast that with our

our allopathic system of medicine, which by the way, I do not shun that and say nobody should participate in that. There is a place for everything and a time for everything. And I think the focal points of our modern medical system and Ayurveda are just different focal points. So I will give the example of if you go into a doctor, just we'll pick a random thing. Say you're having heart palpitations and you go into your doctor.

They're going to zoom in on the problem and they're going to say, okay, we need to send you to a cardiologist so they can look at the smaller level of this, which is what's happening in your heart. Now, if you go to an Ayurvedic practitioner, they're going to zoom out and say, let's look at these other factors. Let's look at what's happening in your mind because that influences what's happening in your body. Let's look at your environment that you're living in.

because we know that all of these external factors can impact your stress levels. They can impact the purity of your body. And so Ayurveda practitioners will actually zoom out on the problem. And we say in Ayurveda that there are about four different aspects that need to be balanced to create optimal health. We have our physical body.

We have our mind, our emotions, we have our spirit or our passions or interests, the things that drive us, and we have our environment. So the environment is a fundamental piece, not only of Ayurveda, but of ourselves.

Jessica (11:03)
and can you explain a little bit more in depth the Ayurveda concept of the elements and how they relate to the environment?

Erin (11:12)
I would love to do that. This is so fundamental for understanding Ayurveda. In fact, I teach entire workshops on this, but I'm gonna try to condense it. I'm gonna try to be brief. Just to give listeners and people who might not have ever heard of this, just a general idea of what this even means. So in Ayurveda, there are five different elements and each of these elements is found in nature. It's also found within our human body.

Jessica (11:22)
OK.

Erin (11:40)
And so the subtlest of these elements is sometimes called ether, sometimes called space. You'll hear it referred to as both. And that space can be found in nature in all of our wide open spaces, provided you could still find those. I know that when I went to Alaska, my dad used to live there and I would go, went dog sledding one time and I was just struck by the vastness of this wide open undeveloped space. And it felt so,

Jessica (11:54)
Thank

Erin (12:10)
and so peaceful. So we still do have those spaces. They are there. The space represents potential because anything could happen within that space. And that same space is found within our body. So any place in the body that we have a hollow space before it's filled up with something is said to represent space. So we have our stomach, we have the blood vessels, we have the colon. So there are lots of different places in the body that are

filled with space. And we can see that also within the mind too. So anytime there's pure potential, anything could happen, it's said to be the characteristic of space. So we see that. And now in Ayurveda, it's said that the space began to move. And so if you create some movement in space, you're going to get air. And so that's the next element in Ayurveda is that of air.

And so the air represents movement. And whenever there's movement in nature, we're going to say that's the air element. So you can't really see the air, but you can see the movement. So you look at the trees, you can see that the leaves are rustling. You can look at water, you can see ripples on the water. That's the activity of air. So the movement force behind that is what is moving it. And that's the same force within our body that creates any kind of movement.

Our breath obviously is one place where we have air, but also our circulation, the nerve impulses, muscle contractions. Any place that there's movement, there is said to be the air quality that is creating that movement within the body. And so the air continues to move and move and move. And if you get a lot of movement, you begin to create friction, you begin to create heat. And that leads us to the next element, which is fire.

So fire, of course in nature we see that in the sun, right? So fire is said to be the transformational power within nature. So the sun we know transforms things. It transforms a little tiny seed into a great big tree. If you stay out in the sun, it's going to transform your skin. If you stay too long, you're gonna be red. So it immediately creates this transformation within the body. And so we look in the human body and we say, okay, any place there is

a transformation that's happening, that's the fire element. So we can really see that in the digestive enzymes and the metabolic processes. Even our sense of vision and sight is said to be that of fire because we're transforming what we're seeing into our thoughts, into our actions and so forth. So that's said to be the fire element. And then the fire, if you have a fire and it begins to condense any moisture in the air and that moisture cools, then that

will lead to the next element, which is our water element. So obviously in nature, that's pretty straightforward. It's any body of water. We've got our waterfalls, streams, rivers, lakes, our ocean, any place that we have water, that's our water element. And water is said to represent nourishment. So we see it in the human body, any place that we have a liquid medium. So think of the fluid that...

surrounds our joints so that we can move without friction and heat. That is the water medium. We have it in the cerebrospinal fluid. We have it in the fluid surrounding the brain. So all of these places that we have fluid, it's creating a medium for the other elements to move without friction. So we say that's the element of nourishment or the element of water. And then if water begins to harden and condense, then

it leads to something more solid, which is our final element of air, excuse me, of earth. So the earth element is the most solid, it's stable, it's our structure, it is anything in nature that has a very solid essence to it. So trees, mountains, anything that's solid, the ground you walk on even is our earth element. And then we see it also in the human body as all of those same solid, stable structures. So your bones, muscles,

anything that's got solidity, so organs, those are all said to be the earth element. So the earth element represents our structure. And so not to go on and belabor this question too long, I feel like this is a really long answer to your question. But all of these elements combine within our human body and we all have all five of them. But there are very predictable combinations of these that in Ayurveda are known as the three doshas.

So just really quick to run through those, because it might add some clarity to conversations that we have as we bring in different concepts about nature. There are these three predictable combinations. The first is known as the vada combination, which is a combination of air and space. And if you think about those two elements, they're very light. There's a lot of movement, right? The air element is dynamic and it moves, but there's also a lot of lightness.

anyone that is embodying this Vata element will have that lightness in their physical form and also in their mind. So we all know a Vata friend, someone who's very creative. They've got lots of new ideas. You talk to them one day and they're...

Jessica (17:36)
.

Erin (17:41)
They're starting something new and then the next time you check in with them, you're like, how's it going? They're like, I'm done with that. I started something else. Lots of ideas, creativity. This is the friends you call when you want an adventure or you want to have some fun because they always bring the fun. They're creative. They got all of this creative energy because they're full of potential. Anything can happen. So the next really predictable combination is known as Pitta and that's fire and water.

I know those seem like contradictory elements, but when you combine fire and water, you get steam. And steam moves things along, right? It can be used as a medium for motion. So people that embody this Pitta element are known as transformational.

They are the ones who are good leaders, they're organized, they're efficient, and they get things done. So that's the friend you call if you're moving and you're like, I need help, I need to pack, need to, you know, all of these things need to happen on the timeline. They'll help you get organized and be really efficient with your time and just really get things done. And then the last predictable combination is that of kapha. It's earth and water. And you'll remember that those are the two very dense elements, so the heaviest of the elements that we discussed.

So what happens if you combine earth and water, get mud and mud doesn't move very quickly. It's a slow moving. There's a lot of there's a lot of substance there. So people that embodied this kaffir essence are just solid. They're stable. They've got a lot of structure. And that's your friend you call when you're having an emotional meltdown that you just need somebody to be a solid grounding presence. So so those

Combinations show up within people, but we also see them within nature. And we can talk about that as we move on through our conversation.

Jessica (19:35)
Thank you so much for that beautiful explanation And I guess just to clarify, when you're talking about the doshas, that's how the elements show up energetically in people.

Erin (19:46)
Right, energetically, yeah, exactly.

Jessica (19:49)
I have very, very foundational knowledge about Ayurveda, but isn't that how you address how to help when you're looking at whatever health ailment they may be experiencing?

Erin (20:02)
We do. So Ayurveda looks at everything through the lens of these elements. So I'm really glad we took the time to go through them because it'll add clarity to anything that we talked about that has to do with Ayurveda. Anytime there's an imbalance, whether that's in a person's body, a person's mind, or even within our environment, can see these, we can see how things begin to get imbalanced. Ayurveda will look at that through the lens of these elements and say, okay,

Jessica (20:09)
Mm-hmm.

Erin (20:31)
If somebody is, for example, feeling very fiery, how are we going to balance that fire element? Well, we're going to look at what would balance fire and we're going to integrate practices, lifestyle habits, and environmental factors that will balance that element.

Jessica (20:48)
thank you for setting that beautiful foundation of understanding for us. And as we move further into our conversation, I know it's going to help. And I know we wanted to talk a little bit about how Ayurveda views the aging process for humans.

Erin (21:02)
Yes, so I think it's interesting that in our society now, everything is about anti-aging. It's we're really pushing back and resisting. We don't want to age. We really value the youth in our culture. But Ayurveda doesn't look at aging in that same lens. It doesn't look at it as a problem to be solved, but rather just a phase of life that we can address by understanding those elements.

I think that it'll be helpful to know that in Ayurveda, there are different stages of life. So kind of in brief, have the childhood stage of life is a very kapha stage. That's the earth and water. Remember, that's the very dense elements. And that makes sense. So children are growing, they're putting on bone structure and they're establishing routines, that things that really enhance that kapha stage. And as we move into our young adult years, we move into that

hit a time period where we're driven. We've got a lot of fire. There are things we want to do, things we want to accomplish. And so we're really driven by fire. And then as we move into our later years, the Vata element, so that air and space element tends to predominate. And so when we have the predominance of air and space, we tended to see the decline of physical structures. So that's when we find that people are losing bone density.

we're losing muscle strength, the mind can become a little more forgetful, which is very indicative of having too much of that air and space. So, Ayurveda just looks at this and says, okay, how do we balance that? If we have a lot of air and space, what are the things that we can do to create more structure and more stability? And we simply integrate those. So, it doesn't look at it as like a big.

problem that has to be solved, but rather just how do we create balance in this stage of life?

Jessica (22:59)
it sounds like there are also periods of our lives that are kind of more

a certain dosha period for us as well. So is there a way that you kind of integrate what a person's general personality is and the time of life that they're in? Does that come into play at all with this aging process and how you address an individual?

Erin (23:26)
Store.

Yeah, for sure.

Well, there are two ways of looking at this. We have something known in Ayurveda as our Pratkruti and something known as Vikruti. So one is what you're born with. So we all have more of some of these elements and less of others, and we're just born that way. And then we have our current imbalances. So as an example, say I'm born and I have a lot of fire energy.

and I happen to be in the childhood of my life, the kapha time period. So the fire energy will be a little bit more dampened and balanced during that time period. But then when I get into my middle-aged years where the fire element predominates, it's really gonna heat things up. And those are the times we see people that do have a lot of fire tend to get very imbalanced during that stage of life. And that can happen for any of the elements. So we already have a propensity.

towards one, then we go into this phase of life that will accentuate or deplete certain elements. And then we'll see that played out in the physical form. And then just to link back to what I know your audience is passionate about, which is the environment, you know, the environment plays into all of this too. So our physical environment, even just the weather, the weather patterns, the lifestyle.

foods that we eat, they're just an extension of that physical environment so we can use the foods that we eat to help create balance. And all of this links directly back into our connection to nature. So we bring that nature in to create the balance that we're seeking.

Jessica (25:10)
Yeah, so it's all about creating balance, it sounds like with Ayurveda balance of these elements, these energies within us that are predominantly driving us as well as the period of our lives that we're in. can you talk a little bit about how when we become out of balance in these elements, we are susceptible to having something

Erin (25:15)
Yeah.

Jessica (25:39)
set in like you had chronic fatigue and then there's all sorts of other things going on that people are experiencing cancer and heart disease

Erin (25:48)
Yeah, let's talk about that. So Ayurveda looks at what Peter Atiyah talks about, the four horsemen of disease or death or so. I don't know what he calls it, but basically the four diseases of aging that the majority of a population will pass away from at some point in time.

Ayurveda looks at these and really directly links each one of these back to our individual dosha constitution as well as what we're bringing in from the environment. So let's dive in. Let's take a little look at just cancer because you brought that up. So in Ayurveda we look at cancer primarily as an imbalance in the Pitta Dosha, which creates inflammation and transformation, and the Kapha Dosha, which rules

Jessica (26:23)
Mm-hmm.

Erin (26:36)
growth and the accumulation of things. And so if we have an imbalance there, it's going to lead to potentially excessive abnormal cell growth, which is all that cancer is, right? And so from an aryvedic perspective, we would look at these five elements and say, okay, how can we use the elements now to create balance? And so I would just go through each one and say, for example, let's start with the earth element.

pesticides are sprayed all over the earth and we know that pesticides are a major driver of cancer. mean, we have farmers and farm workers and their families who are exposed to greater levels of pesticides than the general population and they have higher rates of very specific cancers. I want to say it's prostate cancer for men and ovarian cancer for the women. And we know that also it's not just the farmers, it's

people living in communities around those farms that are impacted by what's sprayed on the earth. So people that live near these farming communities that spray pesticides, they are having cancers at greater rates too. In fact, I'm trying to remember there was an article published, I think it was in Frontiers in Cancer Control and Society, I think is what the journal's called. They always have these long names, but it looked at the...

a US population-based study and it found that people that lived near these farms where the pesticides were sprayed had a risk of cancer that was comparable to people that smoked for their whole lives. I mean, that's huge. That's really huge. So we would look at that earth element then and say, okay, how can we begin to purify that? know that that is causing an imbalance in the doshas We know those pesticides are

Jessica (28:17)
Hmm.

Erin (28:30)
harming the body. So how can we look at that? And we can talk about some ways to do that later. And then we would look at the water element and say, okay, well, what's happening with the water element? I know you talk a lot about these things on your podcast, but we know that the water element is just severely polluted pretty much all over the planet right now. I there's almost nowhere that you can go where you won't find microplastics in the water. And we know that those microplastics have been shown to cause cancer.

And this is a worldwide problem. When we would look at the fire element and say, okay, well, what happens with the fire element? Well, we're breaking down the ozone layer that is there to protect us. We need to be exposed to the sun. There's this big fear around the sun these days. Everybody's trying to shield themselves and stay away, but over the course of evolutionary history, humans have been in the sun. And it's only a recent development.

to my understanding that we have this massive rise in cancers and skin cancers particularly. And I would say it's due to the breakdown of the protective elements that are there, like the ozone layer that protect our skin. And so we would look and say, okay, what do we need to do to protect our body while still receiving the positive benefits of being out in the sun?

And then we would look at the air pollution. know that air pollution is just, I would say it's probably the biggest problem that we have on our planet right now. Air pollution is everywhere. You cannot get away from it. I mean, I think I read something recently where there were only like five places in the world and they didn't list them probably because they don't want people to know where they are, where you could go where the air was actually.

and they couldn't detect any level of toxins in the air. That's not very many places in the great big world. So we know that air pollution is causing cancer and promoting the growth of cells in the lungs that cause cancer causing mutations. We have all these components of air pollution like the heavy metals and the PAHs and just all of these different things that are in the air.

Jessica (30:27)
That is scary.

Erin (30:45)
They're contributing to lung cancer for sure, but they're also contributing to an overload of toxins within the body. And then we look at the ether, the space, that's the one element that people just have a hard time getting their minds around. They're like, what is that? What is that space and how do we deal with that? Yeah, exactly. It's like, what the heck is pure potential? What does that mean? But you know, there are a lot of unseen forces and that's how I would define them, the things that you can't see.

Jessica (31:02)
How can I relate that to something? Yeah.

Hehehe

Erin (31:13)
Some people worry about the EMF exposure and cancer. And some studies have found a link between EMFs and a higher risk of childhood leukemia. Other studies have not. I think that it just is going to be a population-based study over time as we see this, because these are relatively new in human history. We don't have any true long-term studies because it hasn't been around long enough to be studied.

So we can look at that and then something that we can all relate to in that ether element is just stress and being so busy that the mind is always full. So there's no space within the mind. And if you don't have space in the mind, then you're going to be under a constant state of fight or flight, which is going to increase your cortisol. It's gonna disrupt your hormones. It's gonna, women going through perimenopause and menopause.

that's when it's gonna come to bite you right there because that stress raises your cortisol. You're not gonna have the estrogen to keep it in balance. And then really everything kind of just goes south after that. So it's really important to look at all of those different elements and how the elements themselves are being polluted. And if you remember that we're just an extension, our bodies are an extension of these environmental elements, then we can see that we need to clean up

Jessica (32:17)
you

Erin (32:35)
what's happening in the earth around us because that is us. That is where we're taking the earth, the water, the air, the ether that becomes our body. We didn't just create the bodies out of nothing. They came from all of these environmental elements. So in relationship to cancer, we would look at each of those elements and say, okay, how can we purify each one of these? And then there are some things we don't have control over. And so then we would look at

detoxification, has also been a big part of our Ayurveda for as long as it's been studied.

Jessica (33:10)
You are singing my tune. Yeah, I just love listening to all of that being said through the perspective of Ayurveda and it's such an ancient practice and it's been around for thousands of years and it's so beautiful and it's all, it was always connected to nature. And we've become as a society and a culture so disconnected from Mother Nature.

and from observing from this perspective, how we are connected to nature, our health and everything that we depend on, like you were saying, the air that we breathe, the soil that we're growing, the food that we're eating, the water we're drinking, and then we add to our environment after eating foods that have been sprayed with pesticides and full of growth hormones and so on and so forth.

and water that may be having microplastics in it, depending on how we're drinking our water and the air that we're exposed to. But then we add to it all of the products that we're using and bringing into our homes and putting on our bodies for our personal care and hygiene and makeup and all the things. It's just putting such a burden on our bodies. But our bodies are luckily made in such a beautifully

Erin (34:30)
Okay.

Jessica (34:37)
design that they can support the release of these unwanted toxins. And you mentioned a little bit at the end about detoxing. And it sounds like the practice of aiding the body in removing additional toxins because

once it's burdened with additional like more than it can handle, it kind of becomes like the system is a little bit backed up, right? And so it's always kind of like, wait, I'm like working on this, but I still have all this to do. Right.

Erin (35:20)
Absolutely. Well, I just, I always kind of chuckle because

Ayurveda, like some of the first mentions of Ayurveda, and this is just when we have the first mentions that are written down, there are some who suggest that this practice of Ayurveda goes back and predates these written texts. But even back thousands of years ago, they were talking about something called panchakarma, which is in Ayurvedic terminology, that is detoxifying. And I'm thinking, wow, if they needed to detoxify their bodies a couple thousand years ago,

I can't even imagine how much we need to detoxify right now because the truth is we're burdening our planet with more than it can detoxify. And so then what if the planet cannot detoxify, our bodies must take in. There is no other way. We can't breathe air from someplace else. We can't get water from some other planet. It has to be from this one. And so as we poison the planet beyond its capabilities to detoxify, we actually poison ourselves beyond

our capabilities. And so we do practice something called panchakarma so we can detoxify the body. And I think that's a really important practice.

There are five different ways that they practice panchakarma. And some of these we actually practice. This is how you and I met. We met in a sauna. So one of them is sweating. We still really do that. That's great. Another not so popular, but it's still in common usage, which is enemas.

Jessica (36:40)
Yeah.

Erin (36:48)
And have neti and nasal cleansing. This is the one that really starts to get people though. In traditional Pancacarma, there's bloodletting. We don't have to go do that, but we can actually donate blood. And I read something recently that was so interesting to me that said that when you donate blood, you're actually reducing the PFAS, the forever chemicals in your own bloodstream.

I mean, that's one of the only ways that I've ever heard of to get rid of them because they are called forever chemicals because you can't get rid of them. Your body can't purge them. So when I read that, I was like, boy, everybody needs to go donate blood. This needs to be a regular practice.

Jessica (37:20)
Hmm.

my gosh,

that is amazing. I've never heard that before. But yeah, PFAS are definitely, and for those of you who are maybe new listeners, you can listen to my episode, let's see, I guess it was 17, where we talked all about endocrine disrupting chemicals and PFAS, which is the acronym for PFAS. It's...

an endocrine disruptor as well as a bunch of other stuff that we don't even want to get into, but they are forever chemicals. I just want to, you know, put that out there for listeners who maybe are like, what PFAS? I don't understand what that is. And so you'll find them in nonstick cookware and even like the inside of your coffee mug. If you go to get coffee at a coffee shop, the little slick liner that puts a barrier between the paper cup

Erin (38:05)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Jessica (38:22)
and the liquid that's in it that is PFAS liner to keep the I guess the liquid from going through. so ways to avoid are basically changing out swapping out your anything that you're cooking with that is lined with something that is non-stick.

And also that would include all the utensils. So like if you have any utensils that are black, hard plastic, non-stick, those I would get rid of as well. That would be one really good way to avoid them. And then also just getting your own reusable coffee mug. I always like to put out like positive solutions for people because it can feel really overwhelming. It can really feel like doom and gloom and like, my God, you know, I didn't know that. And of course you didn't know that it's not your fault that.

Erin (38:55)
Yes, yes, let's definitely go there.

Absolutely!

Jessica (39:13)
maybe this is the first time you're coming into that information. We were not told there is no warning label on the box of pot and pans that you bought. It was all like convenience. Like it's so easy to clean. It's so much easier to cook in. And that is definitely glamorous. Right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Erin (39:24)
No. And it is, and I'd like to point that out. That's true. Those claims are true. They are easier to cook in, but there's

a price. There's no free ticket.

Jessica (39:40)
Yeah, and that's the scary part about convenience. And I think that's a conversation that we need to start talking about more and more is the price of convenience is the cost on the back end is our health and the health of the planet. And so this is a conversation to start talking with your girlfriends about and anybody, anybody who you can have this conversation with because it's all about raising awareness, our own awareness by listening to a podcast like this and

Erin (39:51)
This is.

That's right.

Jessica (40:10)
than going out and talking about it because that's the only way people are going to start being able to know because it's not on a warning label on any of the things that you're purchasing and almost everything that you're purchasing, even the things that have the labels that say it's like better or good or BPA free or whatever it is. Like that might be just like one element that they've eliminated, but there's 10 other things that are still not great for you in that item that.

Erin (40:17)
Motion.

Jessica (40:39)
you

know, you think you're doing better and maybe it's like one little thing better, but so that's why I did make the Sustainable Living Guide to just help people. So I'm gonna throw that out there. Thank you.

Erin (40:41)
Right.

which is wonderful. Yes, if you haven't

read it, please do. It's fabulous.

Jessica (40:58)
Yeah, thank you so much. I just figured that if I was going to spend this much time and energy finding these products for my own self and family, that it would be silly not to share it with everybody because it is just such a time saver and a stress saver to just be able to like be like, okay, well, I want to replace all of my kitchen cooking pots and pans, right? So

Erin (41:05)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jessica (41:24)
there's

a chapter for that because even some things, like I said, the labels are a little bit deceiving and so even some items that you think are better are probably not ideal either. So it just takes out all the guesswork and saves you a lot of money on the back end. Because I've made all the mistakes for you. I've spent the money and then gone, my God, but what about this thing? It's still got all this stuff in it.

Erin (41:44)
Yes.

Right, yes.

Jessica (41:53)
So yeah, you don't want to like trade one problem for another. But I wanted to get back to talking because there are so many different diseases that are so prevalent right now in our society. So I know we are going to cover a few more topics and one of them is heart disease. It's a leading cause of death globally. So how can Ayurvedic principles help prevent and or manage heart disease?

Erin (42:09)
All right,

well, heart disease, according to Ayurveda, is because of inflammation. It's an excess of the fire element. And the fire element creates this inflammation, right? If you put something in front of a heat, you know, you're gonna get a blister. It's gonna be inflamed. And the same thing happens.

as we inflame the body. So we would look at heart disease as a question of not how do we treat heart disease, but how do we reduce inflammation? so some of the, the, I don't know if they're easy, but there's simple ways to do that, would just be watch your diet. get, I mean, everybody knows this. It's like your mother telling you to eat your vegetables, but get the processed foods out. And I say that,

even speaking to the health-minded and health-conscious individuals because I know as a busy mom I've had five kids and I know what it is to be busy and racing out the door and nobody's had their breakfast and it's easy to grab something packaged even when you're health-minded and think that because it's labeled as a healthier version that it's okay. But it's not really okay, it's just less bad.

Right? And so I would say try to make nature's foods your fast foods because they are fast. It's fast to grab an apple. It's faster grab, you know, grab a little bit of peanut butter or something and throw that in a bowl. Those things are our fast foods, but really we all need to get rid of the packaged foods, even the ones that are supposedly healthy because they sit around for a long time.

many of them have imbalanced levels of the omega-3 to 6, and that'd be something I would look at too, is the omega-3 to 6 ratio. That can create tremendous inflammation. that's a known driver of cardiovascular disease. And even the NIH-sponsored research has found that in animal models, not people, the animals, who have higher levels or higher ratios of omega-6 to 3,

they have greater atherosclerotic plaque formation. So I would really watch that. And the way that you can get that level down to a more manageable ratio is just simply eliminate the packaged foods. If it comes in a package, just try to avoid it. I know it's hard. I know it's easier said than done.

And I know there are lots of yummy looking things out there, even in the health food section. I go to Jimbo's and there are all kinds of packaged foods that look great, but they're still packaged foods, right? They still are going to have an improper ratio for most of them of the omega-3 to sixes. And the only way that we can bring that into a proper alignment, which is really about four to one. So we want to have for every four grams of

Jessica (44:54)
No.

Mm-hmm.

Erin (45:16)
omega-6, we want to have at least a gram of omega-3. And the typical ratio for someone in the United States is probably about 100 to 1. So it's way, way out of balance. So that would be something I would watch. And then watching the seed oils, especially the linoleic acid, I think that was the same NIH study that found that linoleic acid caused greater activation of vascular endothelial

cells than saturated fat. So everyone's freaking out about saturated fat, but I think we really need to be more mindful of the linoleic acid and just it's not that anything is bad. It's just that when our ratios become imbalanced, the results can be negative within our body. So that's a great way to bring down that inflammation. Get the omega-3 to six, right? you, you know, a lot of people are into taking the omega-3s and there's a lot of research on that, but

I would postulate that it's not necessarily the inclusion of the omega-3s that's driving that transformation. I would say that it's bringing the ratios into a proper balance. And so maybe the better way to do that, since a lot of the omega-3 supplements, many if not most, they deal with lipid oxidation, I would say the better way to do that is just simply bring down your omega-6. And then of course, lifestyle, you know, we spend so much time indoors.

there are no cues from the sun anymore as to what our circadian rhythm should be doing. And we know that the American Cancer Society, I know we're talking heart disease, but the American Cancer Society has only classified one lifestyle issue as a carcinogen, and that is shift work. And so when we're not receiving cues from the sun, as we're meant to, then there are certain hormonal cascades that simply

don't happen, they're not triggered. So our body's all dark on the inside, there's no light in there. We receive light from the outside and it triggers the super chiasmatic nucleus that produces melatonin, which is one of only two antioxidants that actually can make it into the cell, the other being glutathione if you're interested in that. So there are only two and you can't supplement your way into this. think that's another problem with our...

our allopathic model has kind of taught us this and those of us who venture into alternative paths kind of bring that model with us, which is we can just supplement our way into better health. So we're always looking at what can we add, what pill can we pop if it's not a pharmaceutical? A lot of people are looking at the supplements that they could pop. And it's not that supplements are bad, it's just that we can't supplement our way past the lifestyle interventions that we were designed to have.

we can really help with that cardiovascular risk factor by giving our body the inputs that it needs, getting outside and exercising. you we know that exercise lowers the risk of CVD So get outside and move. Don't just, don't go to the gym and be under fluorescent lights. Go outdoors and move outdoors.

and not someplace where there's a lot of air pollution. So maybe go on a trail. So get away from the cars. speaking of which, that is another risk factor for CVD. There's a big link between air pollution exposure and cardiovascular disease. Well documented, well supported in all the research studies. I would say just tune back into nature. Eat from nature. Go walk on the trails. Give your body some sunlight.

Jessica (48:29)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Erin (48:50)
without glasses on for a little bit of the day so that your body is receiving the cues that it's meant to receive. And that will absolutely lower the risk of CBD, along with cancer and everything else.

Jessica (48:53)
Mm-hmm.

Right, yeah, they're all connected for sure. I wanted to just go back a little bit, rewind to saying to create a balance between omega-3 and omega-6 more than focusing on supplementing omega-3. And your tip, just to be clear, to lower or to help those ratios become more balanced would be to lower your exposure to seed oils and processed foods. that, was I understanding you correctly there?

Erin (49:05)
Yeah.

Yes.

Yes, I would absolutely do that as a starting point. So really focus in on that. And then there are tests that people can do to test their ratio. And then you can see where do you land once you've eliminated these.

Jessica (49:33)
Okay.

Erin (49:45)
And I should mention too that this is a long haul process. This is not something you do when we can go get tested the next. think it takes between 18 months and 24 months to completely remake the cell because these, these omega sixes get into the cells and they create the structure of the cell. So you're not going to just remake those cells overnight. This is a long process. You really have to be in it for the long haul and know that

Jessica (49:51)
Yeah.

Erin (50:14)
You'll do this for a while, you can retest and you can see your levels coming into a more balanced ratio. And I would look at any kind of supplementation almost in a medicinal way. So this is something you need to do to get back in balance. It's not something that you want to do forever. It's really the dietary lifestyle and nature that we want to integrate and sleep and integrate those as our foundations for health.

Jessica (50:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, I agree totally with that statement. And I will say, though, that

When you're exercising outside, if you can't make it to a trail, I think that if you're just able to go take a walk in your neighborhood and your neighborhood happens to have traffic around, know, then it's better than not getting outside and getting fresh air and sunlight and exercise. you know, so do that because the pollution outside, I've heard this that the air quality outside is not great. And depending on where you live, it could be worse.

But it's like our indoor air quality is arguably worse than any outdoor air because it does have that space to dissipate. so getting any fresh air is better than no fresh air is my understanding. Can you confirm that at all? Just so that we don't like, know, strike fear into the hearts of listeners and.

Erin (51:21)
Great.

Yeah... Well...

Right.

Jessica (51:39)
Also too, think you're out there and you're moving. And so the lymphatic system is also taking care of the pollution and detoxing through movement. So it is really important to get movement and that sunlight

Erin (51:42)
Yes.

agree with that. And I would just say you can time it at a time of day when there's less traffic. You know, if you have a lot of traffic. Yeah, exactly. And that's actually the best time of day to go outside and get your light because the super chiasmatic nucleus is a part of the body that can be triggered by light. And as soon as it has its first exposure to outdoor light, it's like

Jessica (52:00)
Yeah, early morning.

Mm hmm. True.

Erin (52:18)
A little alarm is set, a little clock, and 14 hours later, the body's gonna produce melatonin. So if you're not getting outside until one in the afternoon, you're not gonna be making that melatonin, which is a master, not only sleep regulator, but it's also a master antioxidant in the body. You're not making that until somewhere in the middle of your sleep cycle. And since most of our deep sleep happens the first couple hours of sleep, you might be missing out on.

some of the deep sleep. So I would say, yeah, get outside first thing in the morning, watch the sunrise, have your coffee outside or go on a walk, walk the dog or whatever, whatever gets you outside first thing in the morning. I have a little ritual that I like to do. I say, wake up. I do like to do a little red light therapy. So three kinds of light, red light therapy, inner light, which is a little meditation and the morning light. And even if those are just a minute for each one and some days they are because some days are busier than others and you know.

life is life. You're going to wake up late one day, but I okay, I can do, I can do a minute of this, a minute of that and a walk outside for one minute. Just, it doesn't have to be a lot. doesn't have to be extensive. Don't can the whole thing. If you can't go into 20 minute walk, just walk outside and see the light. All you have to do.

Jessica (53:31)
Yes,

thank you, because I feel like sometimes all of these things can feel a little bit overwhelming. And so thank you for giving something that feels much more attainable and simple to add in something that can be done in one or two minutes and still be effective. I would like to move into metabolic syndrome.

and because it is something that has grown exponentially lately. I feel like you never used to hear metabolic syndrome and now it's like literally a buzzword all over. So I do want to talk about that. And then I think that because of

Erin (54:04)
It's

Jessica (54:07)
after school pickup is coming up. So both of us are on our way out the door to do that right after we're done recording. So I would like to discuss metabolic syndrome and then maybe like pause and put a pin in our conversation and then we can revisit

Erin (54:08)
Exactly.

yeah, I don't even think I heard that until maybe the past few years. We heard about diabetes and now it's become this whole

you know, this whole cascade of syndromes. But basically, it's a dysregulation of the fire element in the Ayurveda, which leads to an accumulation of earth and water. It's as simple as that. So we

that because people put on physical structure when they have this metabolic syndrome. obesity is linked with metabolic syndrome. And there's a lot of evidence now, which is interesting.

suggesting that air pollution or exposure, especially to nitrogen dioxide, which is found in exhaust, can actually contribute to an increased risk of type 2 diabetes. So there have been several epidemiological studies that have observed this association between high levels of air pollution and the type 2 diabetes. So I was thinking about this, like, how does this work? Like, what exactly is going on?

And I think what it is is that the body perceives this threat when there is pollution coming in and it can't detoxify quickly enough. And so the body creates an alarm system. And what is the alarm system? It creates this inflammation to counteract the threat. And so that's the dysregulation of that fire element.

And then that inflammatory response actually leads to disruption in the insulin signaling because you've got interference. It's like static in the airways, only that's happening inside your body. The body can't communicate efficiently. And then once you become insulin resistant, then of course you've got issues with the liver and muscle tissues. And so really this metabolic syndrome is just, it can be addressed by

enhancing the digestifiers, what we call it in Ayurveda, and then counteracting the heaviness of those earth and water elements. So we have to have the movement and the lightness, and that can come, of course, through the physical movement, but it can also come through the movement of ideas and thought, having more space. So we're all just scheduled to the hilt and busy, busy, And I think it's really important in our society.

to be mindful that we need to have more space. So I don't think it's a coincidence that we're seeing a huge increase in this metabolic syndrome, is what? It's an accumulation of this by, excuse me, the water and the earth elements. And what we really need to counteract that is more space. It's not a coincidence. We're all just needing to have a little more space. We need to have space in our day. We need to have space in our mind.

Jessica (56:58)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Erin (57:06)
time for some meditation and things that will create that space within us will really, I think, resolve the issues that we're having and seeing with these increases in the diseases of aging.

Jessica (57:17)
when you look at it through this lens of connecting all of these different syndromes and dis-eases, I like to say dis-ease as like a lack of ease in the body, two different words, and how it connects directly to nature and the solution is in nature also,

Erin (57:28)
Yes, two words.

Jessica (57:37)
we're finding how it's connected to these elements that are found in nature, the disease or the disconnect or whatever you, however you wanna say it, And then how we can just bring those elements back in and nurture them and seek.

Erin (57:37)
Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Jessica (57:57)
solutions in mother nature to create the balance again, I just I'm loving this conversation and Again, we could talk for many many of an hour on this I know that there's like multiple questions left here on my list like I'm scrolling through the questions and I'm like we're just not gonna not gonna I get to get to them today, but I do want to have another conversation I think that

Erin (58:17)
I know.

Jessica (58:26)
It's really important to be able to connect the dots in this way. so thank you so much for coming and sharing your time and your wisdom and your energy to serve the listeners today. I really appreciate it. And I know that you've recently started a YouTube video, not video, a YouTube channel with yoga videos.

that you're sharing and how can we find your channel? What is it called?

Erin (59:01)
yes, I did. I started this channel just a month or so ago because I felt like

It was a good entry point for people to practice yoga. You're moving the body, we're focusing on breath, and we're creating that space. Because that's the one thing I've seen over the years of being an Ayurvedic practitioner. And it's been interesting doing this for decades. I've just seen the space slowly diminish in people's lives until I feel like that's probably one of the greatest challenges that we face in our society right now.

Jessica (59:15)
Mm-hmm.

Erin (59:35)
is there's just a lack of space. don't have time. are one thing to the next to the next. But the moment our feet hit the ground, even before our feet hit the ground in the morning, we are laying in bed thinking of all the things that we have to do. And we all have to-do lists that we can never get to the bottom of. And it creates this fight or flight, low level, chronic inflammation in the body that I feel like we could resolve if we just create a little bit more space.

Jessica (59:42)
And.

Erin (1:00:03)
I thought, well, what's a good entry point for people? What can people do in their busy lives? So I thought, okay, I'll create this little yoga channel. So I put yoga videos on there of all different lengths. There are some that are 10 minutes all the way to an hour. And it's just an entry point for people to find space. And I'll continue to add to that. I've got at least one meditation on there, but my thought is to add to that in the new year.

and just use it as a little place where people can pop in to create a moment of spaciousness in their lives. So that's, it's very unsearchable right now because it's brand new, but if you type it all in, it's one great big word, yoga with Erin, E-R-I-N, at, little at symbol, move and meditate. Then it should come up and you can click on that and I would love to connect that way, yeah.

Jessica (1:00:44)
Uh-huh.

Okay, well, I'll definitely make sure that I include a link in the show notes.

And also, I'm going to link to my guide. If you haven't picked it up yet,

And, if we can make it a priority to do something different this year, maybe it's just one swap or one different choice that we make for our health and or for Mother Earth, whatever your reason is, you know, just making it a part of your conversation as well, the thing that you decide to swap out.

and to the change that you decide to make in your lifestyle for whatever reason it is, make it a topic of conversation. Maybe text a friend right now so you don't forget. Be like, when we go on that, or let's go on a walk in, let's talk about this thing that I just learned And maybe share the podcast with your friend because it's all about raising awareness and getting this information out there.

because I think that a lot of people are kind of where you were 20 some odd years ago, Erin, where if they've had a diagnosis or maybe someone in their family or a friend has had a diagnosis of disease. And like you said, your doctor just said, like, we're gonna throw all this radiation at you and you can't be around people for three days. And you're just like, okay. And right?

Erin (1:02:17)
Yeah, I know, didn't even think twice

about that.

Jessica (1:02:20)
We don't even think twice about it. so

now that you're exposed and you're able to understand that you have choices that you can make for your lifestyle and for your health journey, it doesn't have to stay this way. I just wanna put that message out there as well because I think that a lot of people, and it is, it's like, we want to trust the doctors and we want to trust that they have our

back in our best interest and they do. But they only have so much, their resources are just limited. So, know, finding a way to kind of find that balance between that world and what can I do on my own on the side, I think is, you know, what this conversation comes down to, right.

Erin (1:02:51)
it's so valuable.

It's so valuable. I would just say that I love doctors. I have many friends who are doctors and I have nothing against them. I would just say that their specialty is really in treating

Jessica (1:03:11)
course.

Erin (1:03:19)
sickness and what we're trying to do is to help you so that you don't get to the point where you need to treat sickness that you can prevent much of that if not all of it.

Jessica (1:03:29)
Yeah, and if you do have sickness, feel like you, know, doctor will help you come out of a dangerous place But if you want to...

take

steps in the direction of maybe changing your circumstances, then this is a very helpful eye opening episode.

I guess as we sign off, is there one tip that you could give to people that they could take action on today?

Erin (1:03:56)
I love that. I wish I could have 10, but I'll try to narrow it down to one. I would say that the most important thing that we can do is take a small step. So if it were up to me, I would say go outside and view some morning light and meditate. Just be still. Meditation can be a scary thought, but just be still with your thoughts for a minute or two each day and start there because once you develop

Jessica (1:04:01)
Okay.

Erin (1:04:23)
the habit of being still, then you're going to intuitively know what your next step needs to be. And it's going to be different for everybody based on your life journey and where you are, how much you've already invested into this path of wellness and environmental sustainability. But if you can just be still each day, then your path forward is going to be clear.

Jessica (1:04:45)
I love that answer. That's a beautiful way to end. Just listen to the stillness within it will tell you exactly what to do. It will guide you. So perfect advice. Thank you so much again, Erin, for joining me today. So much fun. And I can't wait until we reconnect for a part two.

Erin (1:04:55)
Wow.

I love it. Thank you so much for having me. can't wait. We didn't even get to all the practical takeaways, so we'll have to do it again and really give listeners some concrete pragmatic steps.

Jessica (1:05:17)
Thank you, Erin.

Erin (1:05:18)
Thank you.