The Live Lightly Podcast

Jessica (00:00)
Welcome back to season two of the Live Lightly podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Franklin. In season one, we took a look at plastics from many different angles, starting with how it's made, and how science is now finding microplastics inside of humans and what that may mean for our health. So here inside season two, I'm talking to founders of brands that are forging the way with innovative household products to help reduce microplastic exposures. Today, I'm joined by Kat Day.

the co-founder of ettitude a brand dedicated to clean fabric innovation. Welcome, Kat. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Kat Dey (00:32)
Thank you so much. So excited to talk about this topic and be on this podcast today.

Jessica (00:36)
I can't wait to get into this conversation with you because hearing about innovation in an otherwise completely unclean industry is super eye opening and very inspiring. What was going on in your life when the idea for ettitude first started to take shape?

Kat Dey (00:53)
Yeah, well...

I would say what was going on in my personal life is I was becoming a mom. So that was a very top of mind topic for me is clean home and clean living overall, making sure that ⁓ the baby and the future babies that I bring into the world are entering into an environment that is healthy and sustainable and that they also have a planet that is absolutely habitable in the future. So that really made the mission of ettitude so

much more personal and more powerful for me. And ettitude was not actually originally started by me. ettitude is started by Phoebe Yu, who is the founder and CEO and I'm the co-founder and president. So Phoebe is a textile expert and innovator and she's been in textiles her entire life and saw personally the supply chain and how toxic it normally is and wanted to do something about it. And ⁓ that's why she spent about four years.

in research and development in developing our ⁓ first clean bamboo fabric, which is our main innovation and what we use in our brand. And we connected online. She was in Australia and I was in New York. And I just fell in love with the products that she developed, which is bedding. I fell in love with the textile, the way it feels. I felt so good climbing into my bed in ettitude bedding that I decided to join as a co-founder,

to help scale the company globally. ⁓ then we originally basically we met in New York and then we moved to LA to grow our company here in Los Angeles.

Jessica (02:37)
when was it that you started noticing the different types of fabrics that you surround yourself with Was there an aha moment where you were thinking, wow, what is polyester? What is microfiber?

Kat Dey (02:50)
I've been conscious about all sorts of inputs into our daily lives. So prior to joining Etitude, I co-founded a natural and organic artisanal

food company. So I was really more thinking about what we ingest ⁓ through our diet and really thinking about how food is being processed and grown and how it ends up on our table. And prior to that, I worked in corporate for Weight Watchers, which is also focused on healthy living and education in that space. So that's been a big part of my career and ⁓

passion before, but then I also realized that what we surround ourselves with and what we wear, as well as what we sleep in, is equally important because we spend about one third of our lives in bed and we are in direct contact with materials and our skin is our largest organ. So it really kind of shocked me that we have been ignoring this part of our life and our health, even though

it's such a large part of our life.

Jessica (04:02)
it's so true. I think food is a great seed to start asking questions about what you're putting inside your body, what you're putting, then it naturally evolves into what am I putting on top of my body? Because like you said, our skin is also taking in, and I think that that's something that comes with time, and people are now starting to realize and starting to ask questions

not only for our own health, but also for the health of the planet because it's all connected. And I know that you've said that it's not just enough to create eco-friendly products anymore and that we need to give back to the earth. So when did that shift in values happen for you from sustainability to thinking more in terms of regeneration? Because there's a big difference between the two. There's that surface level and then regeneration is that

next level,

Kat Dey (04:51)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the word sustainability has also become so generic and a lot of people don't even realize what that means. But sustainability literally means just sustaining at the level we are at today. And the level we are at today is not good.

We really need to improve where we are. ⁓ There are all these studies as far as, and you cited some of them, as far as ⁓ microplastic pollution and the current state of affairs is not a great level to be at. So we really need to reduce our microplastic pollution. ⁓ And...

Jessica (05:09)
Very true.

Kat Dey (05:30)
Regeneration is a part of that conversation is one, we need to reduce the use of our fossil fuel based materials. But second is how do we give back to the earth? How do we make sure that whatever solutions we come up with don't do more harm than the microplastic pollution that we are reducing? So that's a big part of what we're doing at ettitude as well as our material science company, our sister company called Plant Matter, which is making new materials in a regenerative way.

meaning giving back to the earth more than it takes. And there are many ways to be regenerative. There are now, you know...

growing methods that are regenerative, making sure that not only are you using organic methods and certain, you you're using pesticides, you're not overusing ⁓ fertilizer, et cetera. That's kind of the basics. But the next part is how do we make sure that we are not depleting the soil? We're actually bringing more nutrients to the soil ⁓ and improving the soil environment as well as our

overall, fauna and environmental diversity where you're growing the material, whether it's for fiber, for textiles or for food.

Jessica (06:48)
this is all very forward thinking and when you first started talking about these concepts, did it feel like people did they understand your concerns around sustainability and regeneration and synthetic fabrics or were you completely ahead of that conversation?

Kat Dey (07:05)
It just depends on the audience. think there are many people who are concerned about this. Certainly there's a big consensus, especially among scientists, that this is a big problem that needs to be addressed, as well as...

in the community of innovators, they're very much aware of the problem and the issue. And so it doesn't feel like I'm talking to folks who are new to the problem. ⁓ But I think a general consumer may not be familiar with it, or it's not top of mind for them because they're focused on other problems that they're solving. or this is not top of mind for them, ⁓ unless

they're really focused on health or sustainability as a passion project or something that they're interested in.

I think the topic of regenerative materials is becoming a lot more prevalent and there's more awareness about it. And certainly there's a lot more awareness about plastic pollution and how there's now plastic found inside our bodies. And one of the contributing factors to that, besides ingestion, know, most of us are familiar with, you know, drinking from water bottles or eating from plastic food containers is a big

part of why we have microplastics inside us. But the second big part is actually textile shedding and the way that we are ingesting or inhaling the microplastic dust that is inside our homes. I think that's a new level of understanding that people are just beginning to have.

Jessica (08:50)
It's true, yes. And this is definitely why I've decided to creating the master class, but also season two to meet the people who are creating the solutions. something like clean bamboo with a closed loop and non-toxic process is completely not the easy path. It's the opposite. what was the most challenging part, would you say, of bringing that to life?

sourcing, manufacturing, or like you've been talking about, maybe just educating consumers.

Kat Dey (09:20)
think it's educating consumers. ⁓

We did spend about four to five years in developing clean bamboo, which is a lyocell-like process of creating fiber from bamboo. And the main difference is that the bamboo textiles on the market before clean bamboo have all been viscose or rayon made from bamboo. And it's really that education that's been important for us. a challenge as well is to make sure that it's clear

that there are two ways of making textiles from bamboo. One is the older viscose way, unfortunately employs harsh chemicals. is ⁓ not the healthiest, not the best for the environment. And then, lyocell method, which does not employ any toxic or harmful chemicals in the process. And that's why we branded it as clean bamboo to make it really obvious that

This

is a very different fiber. It's produced in a different way. It is healthier for you. It is completely closed loop. It saves 99 % of water and solvents in the process. It employs completely non-toxic food grade solvents to create the fiber. And then you just feel the difference. It's not just in the way that it's produced. It's also the way that the finished products actually behave and the way that you feel it on your skin. And we've heard that time and

time again from customers that when they climb into ettitude's betting, just feels different versus other bamboo sheets they've ever tried.

Jessica (11:03)
Yeah, I've tried bamboo sheets in the past way back not knowing anything about the difference or that there was a difference just thinking bamboo sounds so much better and That was the first Part of my journey. was just knowing that there was something different

the synthetic started creeping in, and I think that's just completely under people's radar. And I know it was under, my radar. I just always like to see things that seem a little bit more nontoxic or sustainable.

And the bamboo sheets that I tried a long time ago were not good quality. They ripped really fast and they pilled really easily. And yours are the complete opposite. So how did you get to the product that you have today? what was that process making something that's not only such a beautiful feel, but also really durable and long lasting? Because that has to be intentional.

Kat Dey (12:00)
Absolutely, and it's part of our brand as well.

ettitude actually originally stands for eco ettitude. That's the it's part of our brand DNA and it's always been a very important aspect of what we do every product that we develop. ⁓ So for us, it's been important to make sure that the product is not just sustainable, but also performs as good or better than the products on the market. And so what does performance mean in bedding? It means that it lasts longer. It doesn't pill like you mentioned ⁓ that it's more breathable.

It feels better against your skin ⁓ and it's moisture wicking. So all those things are very important for us. So the way that we developed it is making sure we avoid the harmful chemicals, the industrial chemicals that are traditionally used in bamboo textile production. So the worst offenders that are used in viscose are carbon disulfide, which is a volatile, highly toxic neurotoxin.

And it has documented effects on the nervous system, cardiovascular system, reproductive system for exposed workers. So that's the worst chemical that's being used. And then there's caustic soda, which can cause severe burns to the eyes, to the skin, to the respiratory system. And so it can also leach into the environment in the viscose production if it's not treated correctly. And then there's sulfuric acid, which is corrosive as well.

All of these, I think, ultimately create a fiber that is not just not healthy and not environmentally sustainable, but also not as durable. We avoid all of that. So the result is that the fiber actually lasts longer and it's more durable. It's got more properties to it that you actually want in the finished product.

Jessica (13:57)
it's amazing that when you look behind the scenes how toxic things can be and we never really realize what goes into the products that we bring into our homes, both the chemical and also just the whole process. It sounds like it's also not so good for the workers, people who are in the factories. And it's obvious that

you have taken that into account as well because I know that that's part of your philosophy is to take care of the land, the people who are going to be using the products for years to come, and also the people in between. So can you talk about that decision and why that was important for you and why you valued making sure that that was a standard for the production process?

Kat Dey (14:44)
Absolutely. Well, so first of all, we are a certified B Corp, which means that we have when we have gone through a process of ensuring that

our entire supply chain and everybody in our company's ecosystem is treated at the highest ethical standard. ⁓ So we made sure that one, the product and the supply chain are sustainable, but also that there's no harm being done and everybody's being treated fairly. That's a big part of our philosophy as a company.

and also we're a member of 1 % for the planet. So I think it's all together. It's not just taking care of the planet. The planet includes the environment, which is the animals and the plants, but also humans. We want to make sure that humans have a fair system and a healthy place to live.

Jessica (15:42)
I think that that is part of How we as consumers can become a little bit more connected to that process through awareness and having these conversations can you talk also about I know that bamboo grows quickly and is a renewable resource so it's not necessarily something that is harmful to be

harvesting and using for textiles and fabrics. ⁓ But is there a way to do it better?

Kat Dey (16:13)
Yeah, so bamboo is one of the fastest growing plants on earth, which is why it's an incredible regenerative feedstock to use for fiber for textiles. And it's actually, I would say it's one of the top.

sources of fiber we can use is just the problem was before people didn't know how to turn it into fiber without those harsh chemicals that I described. ⁓ There are other sustainable sources of fiber and even regenerative sources of fiber and there's so much innovation around it as well. I mean for thousands of years people have used hemp which is a really great sustainable alternative. Linen is also a really good option. ⁓ I would say cotton is one of the worst

Jessica (16:36)
Mm-hmm.

Kat Dey (16:58)
offenders. So most people think cotton bedding, you know, it's been around for thousands of years, it is a natural fiber, but unfortunately it is one of the most unsustainable fibers we have. The reason being is that it is extremely thirsty, it requires a lot of fresh water to irrigate it, and the second reason is the pesticides and fertilizers that are required to grow it, and it is one of the dirtiest

crops that we have. And then ultimately it's not just the way that it's grown, it's also the way that it's processed. A lot of the times when you're buying cotton sheets you're not realizing how it's been treated. ⁓ Often harsh chemicals are being used, formaldehyde, ⁓ there's bleaching, there's you know potentially toxic dyes being used in the process.

So it's just very important to read the labels, not just blindly take it at face value. You have to dig a little bit more into it to understand whether you're getting a healthy product.

Jessica (18:08)
it definitely is like you have to get a PhD in materials and knowing how things are being processed as a consumer. There's just so many different layers. looking back at this journey and how your standards have been shaped for both quality sustainability and safety.

what do you look back and think you are most proud of?

Kat Dey (18:32)
Well, I think I'm most proud of the fact that we have really strong certifications as a company, as a brand. ⁓ And like you mentioned, it feels like you need a PhD to figure it out as a consumer. That's why certifications exist, to make it simpler. So some of the certifications that I recommend people look for ⁓ when they're buying organic cotton, for example, is got certified ⁓ organic cotton. They're also regeneratively grown cotton.

⁓ available now. I'm not sure if you can buy sheets made with regenerative cotton yet on the market. Certainly clothing, yes. ⁓ For us, what's very important and what I'm really proud of is our OECOTEX Class 1 certification. And most bedding out there, most textiles that you either wear or sleep in today only have Class 2 OECOTEX certification, which certifies that there is a low level of

of

harmful chemicals left on the finished products. And class two just means it's safe for skin contact. Class one is the highest class you can get, and that means it's safe for babies. So the threshold for how much harmful chemicals can be left in the finished products is virtually zero. And I'm really proud that we have the class one certification for our brand and all of the products that we make.

Jessica (20:01)
Can you talk about what that process was like to get that certification? did you get that right away because you were so thoughtful and intentional about what you were creating in the first place? Or were there moments where you had to rethink and go back to the drawing board and fix something?

Kat Dey (20:21)
⁓

We actually started with a very clean process. So we weren't in a position where we didn't get the certification or needed to change something. But I think one thing that was very important for us is not just the textile itself, but also how it gets dyed. ⁓ And we use non-toxic dyes called Aviterra SE reactive dyes, which are non-toxic and

the most sustainable dyes that are available today. ⁓ It's still commercially available dyes, they're not natural dyes ⁓ to ensure consistent color and great color fastness. So that's something that I also recommend folks to read into, especially if you love beautiful design and you're not just getting white sheets and you want beautiful colors, which is something that ettitude really stands out for.

the market. do have ⁓ wonderful nature-inspired colors that really span the gamut from beautiful yellows and really dark blacks even. So that's something that we spent a lot of time thinking about making sure that whatever dyes we have are healthy and sustainable.

Jessica (21:40)
So it sounds like you were really intentional initially from the get-go and it didn't drive you crazy going back to the drawing board again and again to get your certifications, which is, a very beautiful way to inspire people who might have an idea to maybe start.

with all of the values in place and go from there. Do you have any other pieces of advice that you would offer to someone who has an idea of something that they want to create a product that would help reduce microplastic exposure?

Kat Dey (22:10)
Yeah, start with your materials and your supply chain. mean, that's definitely the most important part.

avoid synthetics as much as you can. If you can avoid it, just don't use it. ⁓ It's difficult sometimes in apparel to do because people want their stretch and you know that makes it just very complicated ⁓ at the end of life to recycle and separate the fibers. That actually is worse ⁓ and so if you're going to use natural materials just go 100 % natural by degradable. The great thing nowadays is that there are some

solutions to that. ⁓

biodegradable or plant-based elastane that is possible to use. So use those instead if you need something. And also our company which is B2B and focuses specifically on materials for other brands is something I recommend checking out. It's called Plant Matter, P-L-N-T Matter, M-A-T-T-E-R dot com. We've developed over 90 different textiles that are

plant-based, ⁓ mostly using clean bamboo but also relying on some other fibers like hemp. We've infused things with ⁓ biochar for specific properties and we even developed something called knot elastic which is fully biodegradable. It's made with clean bamboo and natural rubber and that's something that Etitude is also going to implement in some of its products, ⁓ especially like the fitted sheet needs in

plastic, things like that. We're always looking for ways to reduce use of synthetics and plastics. So one of the other ways that we did it, for example, is we don't use plastic buttons in our duvet covers. We use Tagua nuts. Those are, it's actually plant-based. It's a plant, which is so incredible. And it looks like plastic and it, you know, it's actually as durable, if not more durable.

Jessica (24:06)
Mm-hmm.

Kat Dey (24:16)
So people don't even realize it unless they read about it on our website or here on the podcast. And of course, plastic packaging, know, avoid plastic packaging if you can.

Jessica (24:22)
Yeah.

Yes, and are you able to do that as well?

Kat Dey (24:29)
Yes, so for example, our vegan cashmere throw blanket, is our innovation. We created a vegan cashmere, it's 100 % clean bamboo that is brushed at the end to make it very fluffy and cozy. ⁓ It comes in a glassine bag.

So glassine is a translucent paper. It's completely biodegradable. It's not fossil fuel based. So really excited about that. And our core products like our bedding actually comes in a drawstring bag that is made out of our offcuts. So leftover material that we can't do anything with, we make that into bags that creates the packaging.

Jessica (25:11)
very intentional. love it. And I think that once people start thinking about what they're bringing into their homes, especially with something like bedding that we're in contact with every single night, it can feel overwhelming to know which materials actually do matter. So inside the microplastics master class, we're focusing on the high impact swabs first, and textiles are a big part of that. Kat

is going to join us to talk about what people should be paying attention to when it comes to the fabrics and materials that are actually coming into contact with our bodies while we sleep.

Thank you again for joining me, Kat. before we go, is there anything else that you would like to share with us?

Kat Dey (25:49)
Well, I'm excited to talk about greenwashing and some misleading claims some brands could have in my masterclass. So join me there.

Jessica (25:58)
All right, we will see you inside the master class. Thanks again, Kat.